Forum 3E5/3E6

You mentioned,"The body is yours and only you are the one who are most familiar with it.To rely on the goverment to take care of your health is like handing your "body" for the government to take care for it. Is your health, your life and its your own responsibility to take care of your own. Do you really rely on government on such things?" I agree with you, it really had to be our responsibilities. However, do you ever think of the people that got the diseases when they are borned? Children that have disease and had been abandoned? Shouldn't government be taking care of them until they have complete recovery in the hospital provided by the government?

Maybe either u dont understand what im trying to tell u or u dun get the points, WHAT IF THE GOVERNMENT IS CORRUPTED?.Will a corrupted government ever spend a thought for the children who are borned with diseases? WILL A CORRUPTED GOVERNMENT EVER REALLY CARE ABOUT OUR HEALTH? Thus, how should a corrupted government being able to take care of the children until they have completely recoverd?

However, without a good government, will Singapore be a peaceful country with no riots and chaos? without a good government, will we be able to live till now? Having high technology medical treatment and having imported resources from other countries?

Whether it is a good government or a bad one,u still must have individual responsibility to ur own health.Those ppl that have a corrupted government is trying so hard to survive,so, shouldnt we cherish what we have now and take care of ourself?Yes, i agree to ur point to some certain extent ,however do u know that if we were to only rely on government on our health, will Singaporeans ever have their own responsiblity to take care themselves?Without a good government , we are still able to live untill now IF WE HAVE THE RESPONSIBILY TO TAKE CARE OF OURSELF.For an example a corrupted government in some countries such as China and Malaysia, why do the people still can live untill now? they are trying so hard to survive because they know that only individual responsibily can make them go through many difficulties.If they were only rely on the government , without the developed individual responsibility, how are they going to survive?

However, without government, will there be Singapore with developed facilities? Will there be any citizens in Singapore working in a good company? Even if the individuals try to take care of their health, they wouldn't be able to do so without the facilities that the government provides.

YitShern, What if those people are inmature, at a age around 10? do u really think they will takecare of themselves? by not eating fried food, ice cream, soft drinks?they need their parents to stand by right? What if they ate something wrong and end up in the hospital? What if their parents' salaries were low? DO YOU THINK THEY CAN AFFORD THE MEDICAL FEES IF THE GOVERNMENT NEVER SUBSIDY ANYTHING??

But if the amount of hospital bills in too large, the government subsidy(like the medisave) might not be enough and eventually the parents will still have to pay some parts of the hospital bills right?

Yes, children age around 10 might not be able to take care of their health and thats when the health promotion Board in singapore comes in as its key strategies is to:
Key Strategies:

a) Support schools in the development and establishment of health promotion programmes

b) Organise school-based and community-based activities to increase awareness of key health messages and skills among school students and youths at community settings

c) Collaborate with organisations to promote health to young people

d) Engaging and supporting peer-led youth health initiatives

e) Organise training programmes for educators, youth facilitators to build capacity of schools and community

f) Organise parent education programmes to enable parents to better understand the health concerns among children and help their children adopt healthier lifestyle

g) Promote the concept of health promoting schools and encouraging schools to establish comprehensive school health promotion programmes

h) Develop and provide educational resources to support health promotion programmes run in schools and community settings for children and youths
https://www.hpb.gov.sg/hpb/default.asp?pg_id=1799

So yeah!
Health promotion board helped!
Without them telling what to do, no one will knows right?
So, yeah.

Yes, health promotion board helped however, they can help by using lectures and etc, however it is still only a small entent as it is still up the the students to want to take their responsiblity to take care od their health a not right? (still individual responsibilty). the government can have many many lectures and programmes however, if the people are not willing to listen, the government can't help that right?

If government have many many lectures and programmes like what you said,there maybe people who don't willing to listen, but there will also be people will listen. those people who listened will then spread the news. soon, there maybe lecturers going to schools/etc talking about it. People will eventually listen, RIGHT??

There will be people listening and spreading the new. YES! THATS IT! People do make the chioce to be responsible for theier own health and thats why they are practising it and spreading, if they don;t even bother, they won;t not even practise right?

They bother because it is about Life and Death. Government spent so much time on lecturing, this shows the information must be very important. When it is important, means it is also very important for the citizen to listen. Since if they don't even bother or won't even practise. BUT THERE WILL ALSO BE PEOPLE BOTHERING AND PRACTISING.

" BUT THERE WILL ALSO BE PEOPLE BOTHERING AND PRACTISING. " which means the individuals are responsible for thier health, they are willing to practise to take care of their health.

But WHO tells them about these diseases, THE GOVERNMENT, THE LECTURER. IF they didnt tell them, do u really think they will even bother? eventually, i think even though they are responsible for their health, without the government, they don't even know about the new diseases. What CAN THEY DO?

Government can persuade them and not let them to take their lives for granted. Health is much important than anything else, it is imposibble for them to not listen to the head of singapore, which is the government.

"it is imposibble for them to not listen to the head of singapore, which is the government." It is not impossible for them not to listen to ther government? Some of the people still break those government rules right?

Some of the people still break those government rules, i argee that. But based on my friend Zhongpeng reply. There WILL CERTAINLY BE PEOPLE OBEYING.WHEN THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE OBEYING, THOSE DISOBEYING ONE WILL CERTAINLY CHANGE. when the rules become more serious,there will be consequences of the rules, people will be afraid of that, then soon there will be a lot of people obeying.

"There WILL CERTAINLY BE PEOPLE OBEYING.WHEN THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE OBEYING, THOSE DISOBEYING ONE WILL CERTAINLY CHANGE. when the rules become more serious,there will be consequences of the rules, people will be afraid of that, then soon there will be a lot of people obeying."

I agree that there will CERTAINLY be people obey the rules however may I know what makes you think so that when there are a lot of people obeyiing, those who disobey will CERTAINLY change? There will still be a minority of people who will continue to disobey.

If the rules were effective, and there are people not obeying like what you jux mentioned, THE GOVERNMENT WILL THINK OF A CONSEQUENCE TO FORCE THE PEOPLE TO OBEY and have u heard a phrase called''monkey see, monkey do''? THIS PHRASE BEST TO SUPPORT THIS MATTER, THOSE DISOBEYING saw the 1 WHO WERE OBEYING, They will slowly obey the rules set by the government, right?

Wei Sheng, what you written "have u heard a phrase called''monkey see, monkey do''? THIS PHRASE BEST TO SUPPORT THIS MATTER, THOSE DISOBEYING saw the 1 WHO WERE OBEYING, They will slowly obey the rules set by the government, right?"

It made me laughed, "mokey see, monkey do", you do mean influence? Yes, influence might cause people to change but not ALL will be able to change right? Government might enforce stricter rules however if the citizens in the country are not happy with the rule, there will be more rebellion compared to obeying right?

If there are more rebellion, why i dont see anyone doing that now?

As what Wei Sheng said,"THE GOVERNMENT WILL THINK OF A CONSEQUENCE TO FORCE THE PEOPLE TO OBEY" which are stricter rules however now, our government is good and it understands that point that by enforcing rules is to allow and to lead people for them to follow and they knew that some will not exactly follow therefore they enforces fines and etc, however the rules are still not that strict like death sentence if you litter the floor once and you will be sentenced to death.

Therefore, it still lies on indiviually if they want to follow those rules as the government might set rules but if they are applicable and understanding, it is certain the responsible citizens will follow those there willl still be a minority which does not follow but at least the government cares about the majority of them who will follow and responsible for their health. Therefore it is still individual responsibility if they want to follow the rules or not right?

The government can implement many rules like no litttering and etc, if the individuals are not responsible, they will never follow them no matter how strict is the rule right?

As for rebellion, because wei sheng said "FORCE THE PEOPLE TO OBEY", therefore, those rules in my opinion must be really unreasonable since it is forcing the people to obey as the rule does not work, therefore a rebellion is caused however it does not occur now, as the government set laws which is not unreasonable and most people are responsible to follow the law

immature** i mean

yes, it is individual's responsibility to take care of your own health, but shouldn't the government enforce measures to ensure that foreign diseases are not 'brought' into the country and unknowingly letting the disease spread to the nation. who else to ensure that there are sufficient clinics for the people than the government?

"but if we take good care of ourselves the chances of us falling sick will be lesser. Why wait until when we are sick then waste money and start complaining ? start small by taking care of yourself and slowly strengthen your immune system so you won't fall sick that easily and could contribute much more to your work and family"

yes, this is true. but how are we going to keep good care of ourselves now that the cost of living has been increased and exercising is scarcely practised? and yes, we have to take care of our own health but shouldn't the government educate the nation about health?

since you said "but how are we going to keep good care of ourselves now that the cost of living has been increased and exercising is scarcely practised?"
Since the cost of living has been increase. We must then practice to take care of ourselves even during the increased cost of living and to prevent sick and to work. If you work, there's will be money for medical care and with the subsidies that given to the people, Singaporeans will have feel less burden to the cost of living. FYI, government do educate the nation about health but it's up to the people to cooperate. Therefore it's our responsibility.

GaoZheng, As you said subsidies that given to the people, this refering to the government isn't it? therefore it means people are stil relying on government, seen you say government educate nation about health but it's up to people to cooperate, this also shows that government is responsible to it.

Even though if Singapore were to be educated in how to fall sick lesser, there is no way that they would keep up the methods due to time constrains etc.

The world is developing the everying is fast paced. Time is more precious than ever. Lesser and lesser Singaporeans would have their health in their mind before they know they would fall ill.

And its not that many Singaporean have a habit of putting a portion of their salary for rainy days. There are bound to be others who are not doing so.

Hence, the government came up with the schemes caleld medishield and medisave.

Do you think anyone in Singapore would be what they are now if they did not have these two schemes to help them save/help them on their medical bills?

We have a choice whether we want to take care of ourselves. Yes, as the world is developing such as being mordernised and competent, we still have to be responsibled of our own well-being. Although there are hospitals, clinics for us to attend to when we are really sick, this sickness is stemmed due to our negligence, such as in work or studies. If we keep relying on government, when are we going to depend on oursleves? Citizens are continuously banking on the government's services, however there is always a limit to it.

I believe that we have to be thankful that governemnt has implemented the schemes you hve mentioned earlier. However, this is an indication from e goverment that people have to be responsibled for their own health. Thus this reduces the grievance or hardship of an individual for paying the healthcare services.

I feel that most of us are mistaken over what type of responsibility an individual and a govermnt have to possess: an individual's responsibilties are to maintain a good health and be a self-reliant citizen, while government's are just to promote healthy lifestyle and keeps the healthcare affordable.

"I feel that most of us are mistaken over what type of responsibility an individual and a govermnt have to possess: an individual's responsibilties are to maintain a good health and be a self-reliant citizen, while government's are just to promote healthy lifestyle and keeps the healthcare affordable." Yes, however, without the government, how are we supposed to live in a peaceful Singapore? Government must be responsible to take care every citizen of Singapore.

Yes, government must be responsible. But now it is our health we are talking not the government, we can’t put all the responsibility on them. We must also be responsible for our own health.

Since the government need us in the country, it should be their responsibility to take care of us.

Mr.Daniel please elaborate more on "since the government need us in the country", for your information your are just stating some points which lack of evidence and explanation. In what way do the government need us? please be more clear with your point thank you=)

Yes, i agree with you. In order for a country to function smoothly, the Government needs every citizen's co-operation. So obviously, citizens are required. Else how can a country function? Even if there is an efficient government, but there aren't many citizens, what is the use???
In an aim to attract people to migrate to a certain country,better and more influencing laws should be proposed. One of them can be that the Government should take care of the citizen's health. It's not too much to ask; i think. It's only asking the Government to look after the citizen's health. If that is actually too much to ask, citizens, being human, would tend to think for themselves and would then leave that country to search a country that offers something more attractive. What would the Government do then? Go bust and let the government collapse?

We must also repsonsible for our own health,however, what if the poor that cannot afford the payment of medical treatment? Surgery that requires high amount of money. Should we just left them alone? Of course not, government must be able to take good care of them and that is why, government must be responsible of taking care of us.

In the first place why do they need medical treatment? It is because they do not take care of themselves and they always have the mindset that if they cannot afford the treatment, there is always the government as a backup. Why they cannot have the mindset that if they know they cannot afford the huge amount of money, they should try to take good care of themselves. I also know that they do not wish to get sick. But they can prevent it.

But sometimes there are diseases that they have when they are borned. They can't prevent it, right?

I would agree that it is our responsibility to take care of our own needs and health. However, at the same time it is also the Government's responsibility to make sure that our needs are taken care of. For example, by keeping healthcare affordable and maintaing high standards of healthcare for patients. Another good example would be the introduction of the Medisave policy, which can encourage self-reliance for the citizens. Also, the Ministry of Health published the National Health Plan in February 1983, as a aim to achieve a healthy and and physically fit population, whereby Singaporeans can have their personal financial resource (Medisave) to pay for their hospitalization bills; which will promote self-reliance.

Yes, it is the individual's responsibility to care for himself, but it is also the Government's responsibility to ensure that citizens will have their personal resources to pay for good healthcare (E.g. Medisave, etc.), in case he is ill and requires treatment. It is a need for the Government to work hand in hand with the citizens to ensure that all their needs are met, and at the same time, not encouraging total reliance to the Government.

Yes, I agree to an extent that the government came up with Medisave and etc for treatments.

However look at this "The financing philosophy of Singapore's healthcare delivery system is based on individual responsibility and community support.Patients are expected to co-pay part of their medical expenses and to pay more when they demand a higher level of service." from https://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/Healthcare/PvdHC2.htm.

From the earlier paragraph from the CPF website, it says that its individual reposibility, If we do take the initiative to take good care of our health, we do not really have to depend on the government for their medisave and etc right for the bills?

Moreover, the government can;t help us a lot. Look at thios FAQ question FAQs on Policies >> Medisave Scheme

What if my hospital bill is more than what my Medisave can cover?
You will need to pay cash for the part of the hospital bill that Medisave does not cover.
https://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/Healthcare/PvdHC2.htm.

Eventually, if the hospital bills are too high, you will still have to pay for yourself and we can;t reply government on everything as the government can;t subsidy all our hopsital bills too (if its too large).

At least government bother to subsidy our hospital bills, this also shows government are responsible, if they are not, why do they even bother?

At least government bother to subsidy our hospital bills, this also shows government are responsible. Responsible? What do you mean by responsible? Do you mean by responisble for our health and responsible for us falling sick or Singapore govenment is good:D

The government can subsidy but not all the sum of money right? (once medisave is used up)

Im refering to responsible for our health and expenses in the hospital.
MEDISAVE USED UP, STILL GOT MEDIFUND.=)

There are needy person singaporeans who despite Medisave, subsidies in medical fees still cannot afford to pay for their medical fees.SO THAT IS WHY GOVERNMENT SET THIS SCHEME.

Now you say that the government is responsible for our heath and expenses in the hospital which is not true. If the government is responsible for our health then the pain we are feeling when we are sick, does that mean that the government can feel it and is it the government that cause us the sickness we are feeling? No, we are responsible for our own health as what we eat and what we does affects our health and what the government does, does not affect our health.

As for Medifund,the government is setting up this scheme for those needy and poor people however, it does not apply to all citizens in Singapore (those more well to do ones) and it is still our responsibilty to take care of our health. Think of this, if from the start, we take good care of our health, will we even need to visit the hospital and use those subsidies from the government.

I'm not saying all who take care of their health will definately not fall sick, but at least have a lesser tendency to fall ill. When we fall ill (some minor sickness like cough and flu), where we visit family clinic, we do not need to use medisave and medishield, do we?

How much help can I get from Medifund?
A4 Medifund help is for patients who are facing financial hardship. It is not an entitlement. Patients have to fulfil certain income criteria before the applications can be approved. The amount of help from Medifund will depend on individual circumstances and the patient's financial background. The application will be considered by the Hospital Medifund Committee.

link:https://www.sgh.com.sg/SharedCMS/Templates/Singhealth%20Generic%20Template.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2fForPatientsnVisitors%2fAdmissionGuide%2fFrequentlyAskedQuestions%2f&NRNODEGUID=%7b6FE72A90-D9F9-4D42-B011-DDAD90AE67B3%7d&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#medifund

The amount of money in which the mediund can help "depend on individual circumstances and the patient's financial background", which means that some which is not exactly very poor to that extent like beggars on the roadside will still get a subsidy but it can't subsidies everything right?

As for those who do never faced financial hardship, this shows that they have stable salaries and therefore they don't need any medifund.
for those beggars on the roadside, why can't medifund help them? why can't they go apply for it?

Yes, thepse who are not facing financial hardship, they don;t need medifund and those beggars on the roadside, they can use medifund of course but what is the sum of medifund is not enough for theri medical appointment and surgerys then what should they do?

Therefore, it is still individual responsibility to take care of their health as when they take care of their health, there will be less tendency to fall sick though not 100% but at least a less tendency to fall sick right, thats why the government encourage us to stay healthy as we being resposible for our health will practise them which is good for us. If a person have been taking really good care of his/her health, will the person even contracted cancer. You might say it is in the genes however, most of the cancer patient cases who is suffering from cancer is due to not taking good care of health.

From the start if the beggar does take good care of his health, he will not have contracted those illness.

Okay,if the government should help,HELP WHAT? You kept mentioning government but what from the government do we need?

actually there are many things, only that we are born with this in the country making us that it for granted.

some examples are : sports complex to encourage exercise, polyclinic and hospital to treat sick patients with lesser amount of money. the government aslo hired sweepers to clean our enviroment so we will not be sick that easily. and trees are plant to make the air freasher. measure had been taken so that the factory will not produce too much gas.

this are only some of what the government did, it is all for us, people.

We might also need some funds from the government to help us pay for a portion of the medical bills if not we would have gone bankrupt long time ago.

If the governments help us paid for a portion of the medical bills, we still need to pay the other portion ourselves. And if the other portion is still very expensive, we still cannot afford it. Why not just stay healthy.

Government can help us to prevent diseases to enter the country so that, people won't fall sick easily. Government also can help us to build hospitals and clinics incase someone fall sick. When the person cure immediatelly, the disease won't continue to spread.
Government also can help those who are poor in their medical fees.
Government must also help to keep the place clean so that people won't get sick easily.

So, government is also responsible.

Governments are responsible to take care of us but we hold more responsibility compare to them.

The government cannot totally prevent the diseases from entering into the country. They can’t check every single one of them.

If the government build more hospitals or clinics, they will increase the tax so as to have enough money to pay for the labour. If the person do not know he has the disease and has already spread to other people around him before seeking for treatment, after that then he went to see the doctor and is being cure, isn’t it too late? Other people who get infected can also spread it.

Government can help the poor, but they are not so rich to help everyone in their medical fees. They still need to use money to build like casino so that they can attract tourists and boost the country economic. If all of them rely on the government, it is like an irresponsible act.

I agree that government must help to keep the place clean so that people won’t get sick easily. But the government cannot 24 hours keep an eye if the place is clean or not. They are not pay to do that stuff. If the place is clean enough and the individual still fall sick, it is not the government responsibility but is the individual.

actually the government can do something.
they will tell all the companies, schools, and all other places to check everyone within them. ( what i mean is the school check all the students and teacher, the company check all the worer, cleaner ...)
they will send anyone with the disease to checkup and and treatment.
the government will also tell use on the ( newspaper, television news ) to warn us about this disease and teach us how to know if we had the disease.if have, go straight for the hospital.

*the government will not build more hospital as the hospital around is enought for now, it is even enought when the SARS breakout, so as the Dengue and Bird flu so i think the hospital is enought.

in another point of veiw, if without the government, dont the situation be worse? example: no hospital, no cleaners.... it is true that the government cant totally help the people, but do you think that the people can help themselve? ( the reall question is, " are you sure the people will not get the disease if they take care of their health?" )my point of view is " no ". if your answer is YES then please make your stand.

the government has a budget for all things ( health, education, and other stuff..... ) so the governemnt will not go above the budget so the other events are not affected. and by the way, when the health budget get low, the govenment will start to pay lower for your medical fees as so to stay in budget and also to tell the people that " your using too much in medical treatment ".

lastly, a place do now get dirty in a few hours, so theres no need to have 24hr of monitering. and if it does need it, the government can arrange morning shifts and night shifts so to moniter it at a 24hr rate.

so to conclude, it is okay to rely on the government as they had arrange things nicely for us and it will not pull down the economic and others stuff...

Yes, the government might be able to satisfy our needs, but think about it, I'm sure it will not be a good long term solution. If everyone is so dependent on the government for heathcare, eventually the money which is being used by the government will also run out one day.It is also individual's responsibility to take care of their own health as when they are sick, they are the ones suffering not anyone else like your family members or whoever, who can "feel the pain" that you're feeling

i totally disagree with you Eunice as not everyone can take care of themself,many ( adult ) are busy and cannot take care of their own health, they then only can rely on the government. And with that off their head ( means that they dont need to worry about it ) they can then focus well in doing what they are suposed to do ( work ). And when the people work, the economic goes up. instead of the money going down it actually goes up.

government have budget also, when they are not in budget, they pay less for the people and then eventually they dont pay so to allow the people to reliase that they are using too much of money. So money will not be a problem to the government.

I agree that we are the one suffering but when the illness come, sometimes we just cant avoid them. it can be spread like SARS and to take care of one's self ( it means that we need to stay healthy ). to stay healthy, soft drinks, sweets, chocolate and ice-cream MUST be avoided ( which many cant ). So in fact only a handful of people can " really " take care of themself. And with that i can conclude that most people rely on the government which means that it is the government's responsible to take care of our well-being.

Bernard, Yes, some adults which are working might not be able to take care of their own health. What makes you so certain that all the adults in Singapore cannot take care of their own health as you did not mention some adults but you only mention adults in a general term. Moreover, Some working adults work as civil servants and they do recieve an enough pay to be responsible for their own health and not to rely on the government right?

opps. I mean adults in minority not most of the adults.

In my opinion, having the governtment to take the responsibility for people,including health care is the biggest insult to the adults.From your points "adults are busy and cannot take care of their own health, they then only can rely on the government".Are u trying to tell me that most of the adults are incompetant , and that politicians can take care of them better than they can take care of themselves?If you think that is true, look how "great" the government programs are --- look at the overhead, cost and fraud.Government programs are the least coverage for the most cost, with the highest overhead.

True government do have budget, but as u say :"they pay less for the people and then eventually they dont pay", u all keep mentioned that people can rely on government BUT HOW DO THE PEOPLE RELY ON THE GOVERNMENT WHEN THE GOVERNMENT DO NOT PAY FOR THE PEOPLE? U ARE TELLING ME TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

everything you say is true but you didnt understand my point totally. government will always stay in budget and till now has no problem with it so theres no way the government will " NOT PAY ". and if it really happen one day,

by " dont paying ", in another point of view is to remain the people that they are taking things for granted. when the people gets it, they care a little respondsibility on their own ( its true as i said that the people must take a little respondsibility but the government take more ).

and to get my point clear, the government do not need to pay for us actually, the paying is helping us and "HOW DO THE PEOPLE RELY ON THE GOVERNMENT WHEN THE GOVERNMENT DO NOT PAY FOR THE PEOPLE?" what you are telling me is that we cannot rely on them if they cannot pay for our medical service? i think that if you can say that, you are taking the government for granted. and by the way, without the government's help, wouldnt the situation be worse??

You keep saying that they are busy and they are unable to take care of themselves, hence it is the individuals responsibility to take care of their health. Junk food will not cause you to fall sick when you eat it once a while. For your information, government help us only for about ten percent? SUbsidising only part of the cost. The rest is all on us. It is our body, our responsibility. We fall sick, we pay money so as to get us cured. Don't tell me you( bernard ) will go to government so as to beg for that minute medical service? NO! When money goes up, the things in Singapore will go up too, true. But when used in other countries, we can buy many other things as their currency is weak. Most of us go to private clinic so as to get the best and to get medical attention quickly. Do you ever want to sit down at a polyclinic with a high fever so as to wait for 50 over patient so as to get your turn? No! If you do not want to fall sick, take care of yourself well. Once again, junk food will not cause you to fall sick. only when you eat in excess. Therefore, with all these point, all these sickness can be stop by we, ourselves by limiting junk fodd and taking in healthier food. The government is secondary for it only subsidies our medical cost for they cannot possibily spoonfeed you with all the healthy food daily. We can control our diet but the government. Hence, It is the individual's responsibility to take care of their health.

I dont think that the money will be used out. If hospitals cure those illness and make humans a healthy lifestyle, i think that they can make more money from it rather than it being used out.

I kind of agree that they should take care of themselves but, governments are also needed. Without governments, there isn't any clinic or hospitals. Without clinics or hospitals, those sick people can't get their medicine or visit the doctor to see what's wrong.

So, i think government also have the responsibility.

Regarding clinics and hospitals, there are the private clinics and hospital, hence, people can sought help ffrom them. I had never once said the money will be used up, however, it will deplete. Also the government hospitals and clinics are selling medicine or providing medical assistance so cheap for the government is subsidising the medical costs. The minute amount of money paid to the hospital and clinics are not enough.

As you said there are private hospital, however, from what i knew, medical fees in private hospital is much more expensive then government hospitals, when there is a cheaper hospital, why do we bother to go to private hospital which is more expensive?

Yes, medical fees in the private hospital are more expensive than those "government hospitals". If too many falll sick at one go then those who are really sick, do you expect them to wait for 2-3 hours to visit or to visit those private hospitals which are slightly more expensive but at least they will feel less of the pain after visiting the doctor within a shorter period of them.

Anyway, if the citizens themselves do take care of their health (junk food can be avioded and I'm not saying MUST be avioded), they will have better immune system and they not have to rely on the government to take care of our health right?

okay, as for diseases like Dengue which hit us not long ago. The government actually came up with posters and educational talks in schools (what we had for assemble a few weeks a go) to tell us the measures which can be taken like not leaving stagnant water in flower beds and etc which actually trying to tell us to be responsible for our health by following these measures right? not wait till falling sick which is kind of late, then our country suffers economically and etc.

thus, It is still individual responsibility to take care of our heath:D

' If too many falll sick at one go then those who are really sick, do you expect them to wait for 2-3 hours to visit or to visit those private hospitals which are slightly more expensive but at least they will feel less of the pain after visiting the doctor within a shorter period of them. '

Lets think, if everyone think that way, everyone will then go to private hospitals. then, private hospitals will have more people and the time visiting there will be shorter already! And private hospitals are more expensive. How are they going to pay? What if they are those poor people? Government help is needed!

For the Dengue thing, if the government did not come out with posters, i think that no one will even know what to do. If no one knows what to do, how are they going to take care of themselves?

So, government is needed too!

Not exactly everyone will visit the private hospitals because of their higher amount of charges and private hospitals is an alternative choice and not compulsory just like "goverment hospitals". The poor people can still visit the government hospitals however in the first place, if we still take care of our health, we do not need to visit the hospital that regularly right (it still depends on our responsibiltiy).

As for dengue posters (the government can help by giving posters but still is our responsibility to want to practise them a not right? the government can give posters and etc however do you think all the people practise it?

See, most people will visit the private hospitals. Like what you say, shorter waiting time all those! Yeah! So, more people will tend to visit there! Yes, poor people can visit the government hospitals. But, what if they are those 'gan chiong' ppl who die die also want to save their lives as soon as possible one? Even if you take care, there's also a chance of getting ill.

Peopl who wants to help the country, will do what the posters said. And, those who did it will influence the others do to it! Hence, more and more people will be doing it!

Valencia, you mentioned" Even if you take care, there's also a chance of getting ill." but at least there will be lower in tendency and you will visit the hospital less regulary right.

Yes,and you mentioned "those who did it will influence the others do to it! Hence, more and more people will be doing it!" YES! and indeed! these people are responsible for their health and they did not want themselves to contract those diseases and want to protect their love ones too therefore they are practising it and spreading it :DD If they are not even responsible for their health, will they even want to follow? You might say they used influence and indeed infulence is a good way to allow people to be learn to be responsible for their own health:)

Valencia, you mentioned" Even if you take care, there's also a chance of getting ill." but at least there will be lower in tendency and you will visit the hospital less regulary right.

Yes,and you mentioned "those who did it will influence the others do to it! Hence, more and more people will be doing it!" YES! and indeed! these people are responsible for their health and they did not want themselves to contract those diseases and want to protect their love ones too therefore they are practising it and spreading it :DD If they are not even responsible for their health, will they even want to follow? You might say they used influence and indeed infulence is a good way to allow people to be learn to be responsible for their own health:)

But you still visit th hospitals right?

Yes, but when they protect their love ones, it's not their individual's responsibility already!

I guess you don't really understand my point. My meaning of influence is to spread the message and therefore people who wants to protect their love ones will encourage them and to motivate them to follow and if their love ones are responsible, they will follow.

It will still be indiviual responsibilty as the those who encouraged are not in the health of thier love ones and it is still their love ones responsibilty to follow or not to follow which is their decision in which they can choose to make:D

In conclusion, it is still individual responsibility then.

When we take care of ourselves, we have higher immunity level and will not fall sick easily, if we do not fall sick easily, the environment will be cleaner and better.

If Government takecare of us by subsidy the medical fee, we will not worry about no money to see a doctor, people will not got stress by this particular matter, without stress, people will not get headaches easily, in other words, they will also wont fall sick easily.

WeiShend i agree with what you said but government does not subsidy the full cost and the government only subsidy medical fee for selected people.

This is also the saying of government is responsible for medical fee.

Yes i agree that this is saying that government is responsible for medical fee but individual's still have o take care of their health to lessen the burden of the government

At least government have sympathy to some people, it is better than taking care of urself

It is not the sympathy, for the government is very busy to show some sympathy to others. We can only take care of ourselves by improving our immune system by eating healthier food, so as to ward of diseases.
Once again, the government can only give us tips on creating a healthier lifestyle. The rest depends on us.

But, without the government giving us tips, we won't know on how to create a healthier lifestyle. So, government is somewhat responsible.

but how long will the government be able to help us? if everyone were to depend so much on the government do you think it is possible for the government to satisfy everyone's needs?

Everyone did not depend too much. Individual's responsibility is important, so is government's! Perhaps, they can help the poor ones more yeah.

There is a limit for the government to take care of the individuals as there are so many people in this world and if government is responsible they will have a very heavy burden

This is why government is also needed. They may not help everyone atleast they did help.

i think government can satisfy everyone's needs, because there will still be people paying tax, the money received by the government is enough.

WeiSheng how do you know that the money received by government is enough?

Money received by the government should be enough for all Singaporeans. Every dollar costs. If the money received by the government is not enough, how are we supposed to live in such a condo, HDB flat and even Bungalow. It is also been verified that Singapore is one of the wealthiest country throughout the world.

yes, we are one of the wealthiest country, however, the tax recieved goes to many other areas, tourism, military, education and many more. Money had been split up and during this recession, the situation had worsen for the government even had to take out their reserves so as to supplement funds for the other areas. Hence, the money recieved by the government can only subsidies part ofthe cost of our medical fees, not everything. Also, the money recieved by the government is not related in the places we are staying. It is the money we had given that we had been staying in such places, not the government.

The government will distribute the money and invest on somewhere else, one of the example is tourist.
even it's enough, the government will then bank the money for future usage for Singapore.

But, nothing is much more important than the precious citizens in Singapore. Hence, Government really had to be responsible for the health of citizens.

If government is responsible for all our actions than who is responsible for theirs?

They would most probably be responsible for each of their own actions.

As a Singaporean, we should understand government's situation and to minimize cost instead of spending them unnecessary,e ven thought Singapore is wealthy.

However, as i mentioned, is money much more important than people in singapore?

Both are important. What happen if a person is pink of health while there's a economic recession? There are also more factors that are important.

I know thatboth of the factors are important.But what we are talking now is a person that is sick and need urgent medical treatment.

If the person has been working, he can use it's medisave.
For the Medisave to work, you have to work and stay healthy for saving money in their Medisave account which can be used in emergency. Therefore, we should be taking care our health to work for saving money in the Medisave to be applicable.

gaozheng, u mentioned the word 'medisave', medisave is a scheme set BY WHO? GOVERNMENT. without it, since if you work so hard, medical fees for surgery, do you really think that some of them could afford?

Wei Sheng, yes, the medisave is set by government however, the medisave will be also used up one day and it can't subsidies the whole sum of hospital then. Moreover, since falling sick is inveitable, people can try to stay healthy like having servings on fuits and vegetables and cut down on the amount of junk food, not totally not eating them but cutting down on them a little by a little.

If a person is responsible for their health, He will find ways to stay healthy and therefore does not need to visit the hospital for those medical surgerys and etc. Health is wealth and we are responsible for our own health. The government can keep giving out posters and instructions to ask us to stay healthy however if we are not even responsible, we won;t not listen and follow. The government can help (only to an extent) however the health is still ours and what we want to do with our health (taking acre or ruining it) is on our hands.

At least Government take initiative to help the citizen to takecare of their health. Without those posters and instructions given(like what you have said), i don't think the citizen will care about it as they don't even know what to do any what is the information or measures can be taken to prevent from the diseases!!

the government uses a portion of the tax we pay the government to help us pay for a portion of our medical bills so as to help us feel less burdened on pay the medical bills .

i agree that the government uses a portion of the tax to pay for our medical bills and it lessens the burdened but these money, if we do not fall sick easily we can have a better environment to live in, don't u agree?

It is not our fault that we fall sick.you can't stop the virus from infecting our body.

but if we take good care of ourselves the chances of us falling sick will be lesser. Why wait until when we are sick then waste money and start complaining ? start small by taking care of yourself and slowly strengthen your immune system so you won't fall sick that easily and could contribute much more to your work and family

Yes, you can't stop the virus from infecting your body, but if you make an effort to stay really healthy like taking fruits and vegetables everyday, mean amount of meat and with exercise. With much effort, I'm sure you can have less tendency to fall sick right?

This is why we need the government to help protect the country. Without the government's help, ppl from other countries come in our country, bringing diseases in and lead to many ppl falling ill.

I agree with you valencia, but the government may not be able to stop every foreign diseases so it requires responsibility from individuals to protect themselves.

Even though they have to protect themselves, government also need to help. So, it's not entirely the individual's responsibility.

Ya the government need to help. But they cannot help us too much if they help us too much, they do not have the time to take care of other affairs

But, they still have to help. if they ignore, then everyone falls ill and die, so what's the point of keeping the country alive.

How can you be so sure that we will not fall sick easily? Can you predict that everyone wouldn't fall sick? If when we are healthy we can have a better environment to live in, so does it mean when we are sick we don't have a good environment?

If we take care of our health we will have lesser cahnces of falling ill and when we are sick this viruses will be transfered from one to another and leading to a bad environment to live in.

You see, if th virus enter your body. You cant stop it. so, you need the hospitals that the government build to cure. So that the virus will not spread on.

Yes, I believe that we also need the hospitals whenever we are sick etc. However, it is ALWAYS our responsibility to take good care of ourselves. Without the hospitals, we have nowhere to treat to. BUT we must not often rely on those. People have to be self-reliant, thus being responsibled for our own health.

*edited*

Not everyone will often rely on those. Government only helps them at a limit. I agree, it's always our responsibility to take care of ourselves. But think about it, without the government help to protect th country from diseases, it will still spread to the people around. So, government is also responsible.

ya to prevent yourself from falling sick easily, it is your responsibility to take care of your own health to ensure yourself that you are healthy

Yes, we have to take care of our own health. But, government have to make sure the place is clean, and diseases do not come in the country easily. Government have to do the other things too.

If they focus too much on taking care of us, how are they going to take care about other problem? Like import expensive equipment? And if we fall sick easily they are going to increase the tax so as to pay for our medical fees

This is why the government had to ensure that we do not fall sick easily so we can go to work and pay the tax

Daniel, i agree that the government ensures that we do not fall sick easily but giving us good treatment but there is a limit to what they can do to a human body.

but without their help will you be able to cure yourself?

Zi Hui, you will be able to cure yourself without the government subsidise. There will always be another way of curing yourself, such as you can ask for paying your bills in instalment and there will be private hospitals and private clinics. Having paying your bills through instalments,you will be able to lighten your burden and this also means that you do not really need the government help to subsidise the bill.

Even if the government is kind enough to subsidise for us, it shows that the government is having care to Singaporeans but we cannot take it for granted and there is always a limit in everything.

Yes, there is a limit to everything. But, after all, government is needed right? Before you can pay your bills, you pay to where? Hospitals! Government help to build hospitals to cure yourself. So that you can pay installments.

Yes the government is needed however if people take the initiative to take care of themselves then do they even need to visit the hospitals?

But, you cant stop the diseases to enter your body. So no matter what, someday you will fall sick and visit th clinic.

we should try to rely on the government more since the government is providing us with this opportunity to help us take care of our health and this allows us to be less stress from paying medical bills.

Fang Jun if u say this than you are totally wrong as people should be independent and not rely on others for benefits as it is unreasonable. We have hands and legs and this parts of our body should be used to protect ourselves and be independent

Raphael, He did not meantion about taking advantage of the government services. Instead he mean that having the government to give us support, as in guidance, we will then be able to do our part in building up the ecnomy or whatever we should do to contribute to the society. If we were streesed with medical bills, how do you think that we would be able to play our part well?

It is not wrong for people to be independent. However, what if the poor families fall ill? The people that have chronic disease? They have to suffer and eventually meeting the death. Government had to be responsible for their medical treatmen in order to protect them and eventually when they got better, they will be as what you said, the hands and legs should protect oursleves and be independent. Therefore, government must be responsible in order for us to have a better life ahead

when more people starts to rely on the government, the government will have to spend more money on healthcare equipments and to build more clinics. which also means the government will have to increase the tax payment then more people will be unhappy about it

People that are sick and seriously injured are much more important than the money. If the tax payment increase for the sake of people that are sick and seriously injured, it is actually charity and a good deed.

that's true but, if they rely on themselves too much they will find it that they may burden them a lot and to some families that are poor they may not be able to pay for the bills and may tend to do illegal things to earn the money for the bills.

thats why when people are responsible they will have the right mindset to stop themselves from doing the wrong thing and to do the right thing.

Relying the government for better health is not a wrong thing

This is precisely we should take care of our health and not fall ill so often and this will lead to lesser bills to pay.

But, we cant stop the virus from entering our body. Diseases are everywhere.

They did not totally rely on the government. They need the government's help. With them to help, they will try their best to help themselves.

I do not agree with your statement well.
"when more people starts to rely on the government, the government will have to spend more money on healthcare equipments and to build more clinics." Do you think that the government only has building clinics and having more equipments as their only options? As I have mentioned in my other post, the government can organise healthy event for Singaporeans to participate. Examples like walkathon and stuffs. These are definitely much cheaper than what you mentioned earlier. These will reduce chances of having chronic diseases and therefore support this phrase, prevention is better than cure. Therefore, the government need not spend that much instead.

I agree with Matthew's reply as the governments should organize health campaigns for the people but Matthew, these campaigns will also lead to expensive bills if too many of these events are held.

This is however not a problem. The government need not hold these events too many times instead maybe once a year should do fine as keeping an annual event still has its positive effects.

Well said Mathew. It is true that the government can use some of the money to create walkathon and more health related rogrammes and this will drastically help to reduce the amount of sick patients , hence less people fall sick.

Yes it is our own responsibility to take care of our own health. if everyone is too dependent on the government, the government will not be able to handle everyone. And if we are unable to take care of ourself, how do we expect the government one person to actually take care of the whole country? Although there are many measures set up by the government to help the citizens take care of their health, don't you think we are just being irresponsible when we actually have a mindset that we always have the government as a backup help?
By not taking care of our own health, we are also on the negative side. Who would be willing to get sick and suffer from all the uncomfortable feeling? Why not just take our own initiative to take care of ourselves and not rely too much on the government settings ? This is our own body our health, it is right we take care of ourselves

If we the people are too independent, then what is the government for?

government is not ment to take care of our health its meant to take care of the place we live in

However, if the country is free from danger.All people is sick then whats the use?

If the government is only meant to take care of the place we live in. Then why is there still many people facing problems regarding the environment that they live in? Does it means that the government is doing a bad job? Or does it mean that the government don't really care about those people?

You are wrong, health is more needed in sense of priority then home, what is the point of where we live or how luxury we are when our health is no good.

if you think everyone will be relying on the government, do you think the government will be able to handle the whole country?
And by being too dependent on others there will be nothing great you can accomplish. when you think the government will always be there for you, you tend to loosen your grips and slowly things will get out of hand

Then whats the use of those tax payer to pay government tax when government do not even care about their health, the government do not get his money when people fall sick and people will be not working.

we never say that the government do not totally don’t care about their health, but the citizen must not take it for granted if the government help them

since the government does not take care of us, why do we need a government in the first place?

if the government do not take care of us, we should take care of ourselves by trying to not get sick.

But there is government to help. with their help, we can take good care of yourselves.

its not that the government have to handle everything. but most things are up to them and sometimes we have to rely on others as well

but when we rely on others what do we benefit from ? it is just that moment we enjoy but ever thought after it what will we get ? it is just us suffering more and more

Benefit of course will have what we will get, such as getting medical treatment requested from the government. If government does not help? who should we depend on? Ourselves? Even if we had to depend on ourselves, we also need the help of government in order to had a benefit

But if the government do not take care of our health there is more suffering created

the governments are able to decide on things but the people are unable to object or make decisions so its true that we rely on government but the problem here is the government need the people's help to earn taxpayers' money, and to build economy and if people need to take care of their health to do that

This is why the government is responsible to take care of the people health

This is why the government is responsible to take care of the people health

"the governments are able to decide on things but the people are unable to object or make decisions so its true that we rely on government but the problem here is the government need the people's help to earn taxpayers' money, and to build economy and if people need to take care of their health to do that"
Rapheal, you are just partly correct.
"to build economy and if people need to take care of their health to do that" This is what i disagree. Times have changed and people are trying very hard to build the economy and as well as fighting for their career. This recent economic downturn has made things harder. As for what you mentioned, the people have to take care of their health? People can hardly even have their own free time and how do you think it is possible that they maintain a good health standard?
So what I am trying to relate to you is that the government should provide healthcare services for the people and meanwhile we help build the economy

the part that u disagree, if people have poor health, they will not be able to go for business meetings or fight for their career so we should make time for ourselves

Perhaps you do not get me completely. I was saying that that people do not even have their own rest time and then how are they suppose to even take care of their wn health? Maybe they can but only to a certain extend. Then there is therefore a need for the government to first help the people so that the people can contribute well or to their personal best.

I actually dont see the problem here. so many have to rely on the government as they dont have a choice.

Many are too busy at work and cant take good care of their health and start to get depressed and frustrated. but when they rely on the government, they know that they are in good hands and will destress and feel relax.

And when the people are happy with this measures ( to take care of their health ), they can focus better as they know that the govenment will be at their back support them if they happen to fall ill. this attitude will improve the economic as people will not slack too much as they want to repay the government for doing such good job. And when medical treatment prices are lower ( not free ) many will be able to afford it and can go back to work faster. you all says that relying on the government will lead to a ( money problem ) but actually when you look into it deeper, you will see that when the people is healthy and happy plus the support of the government, they will work extremely well compared to a workers without. lknow this facts, i can conclude that the economic and the budget of the government do not go down, but in fact it goes up as when they workers work hard, the economic will go well also and then the government will have more money to take care of the people ( including the people that can't work; disabled, elderly and may even to babies ) and can even have enough money to use it on other stuff like; more cleaners to keep the enviroment cleaner so people will not get sick so easily. With money, they can even build a complex that provides free access on using the equipment and that encourage the people to come more often to exercise which will also improve their health.

So lets link back, when we rely on the government, we get a very hard working country plus the workers are all healthy. afterthat we will able to take care of those who need, and can even build complex or something to improve the community.

so when we rely on the government and the result is that we actually helped the government and the economic, i dont think it is irresponsible. The government then gain more then it loses in the end and so i think we are not doing to wrong things.

the government have the power to take care of us, but he cant build a good community without the people so thats why we exchange favours, they help us and we help them, its a win-win situation which at the sometime help the economic to grow and then lead to a lot of positive improvement.

valencia are u saying that people are able to get sick anytime they want as they have the low treatment and good governance? If that is a yes than u are totally wrong as even if the treatment is low it still cost money and if many people get sick, economy will drop.

It is not what she meant. She meant that people have to take care of their health and they had to approach the government when they fall ill accidentally when they do not want it.

what i mean is many ( adult ) are busy and cannot take care of their own health, they then only can rely on the government. And with that off their head ( means that they dont need to worry about it ) they can then focus well in doing what they are suposed to do ( work ). And when the people work, the economic goes up.

Even if we take good care of our health, do you think that nothing will go wrong? Can you guarantee we will live a long life if we take good care of our health. You say that we shouldn't have a mindset that we always have the government as a backup help, but if the government is not there as a backup then what is the role of the government?

it is true that we need security from the government and the government has built many things to help us maintain good health but have u all thought of this loophole that even if the government made this world a place that has no danger, people who do not care for the responsibility to take care of their health, this world will also be useless and so what is the use of making this place so safe when the individuals take it for granted and ignore this responsibilty so even if this world is safe they will still fall sick and die.

THE POINT IS WE ARE NOT TAKING IT FOR GRANTED BY RELYING TO THE GOVERNMENT!!

have to repeat again and again

Many are too busy at work and cant take good care of their health and start to get depressed and frustrated. but when they rely on the government, they know that they are in good hands and will destress and feel relax.

And when the people are happy with this measures ( to take care of their health ), they can focus better as they know that the govenment will be at their back support them if they happen to fall ill. this attitude will improve the economic as people will not slack too much as they want to repay the government for doing such good job. And when medical treatment prices are lower ( not free ) many will be able to afford it and can go back to work faster. you all says that relying on the government will lead to a ( money problem ) but actually when you look into it deeper, you will see that when the people is healthy and happy plus the support of the government, they will work extremely well compared to a workers without. lknow this facts, i can conclude that the economic and the budget of the government do not go down, but in fact it goes up as when they workers work hard, the economic will go well also and then the government will have more money to take care of the people ( including the people that can't work; disabled, elderly and may even to babies ) and can even have enough money to use it on other stuff like; more cleaners to keep the enviroment cleaner so people will not get sick so easily. With money, they can even build a complex that provides free access on using the equipment and that encourage the people to come more often to exercise which will also improve their health.

So lets link back, when we rely on the government, we get a very hard working country plus the workers are all healthy. afterthat we will able to take care of those who need, and can even build complex or something to improve the community.

so when we rely on the government and the result is that we actually helped the government and the economic, i dont think it is irresponsible. The government then gain more then it loses in the end and so i think we are not doing to wrong things.

the government have the power to take care of us, but he cant build a good community without the people so thats why we exchange favours, they help us and we help them, its a win-win situation which at the sometime help the economic to grow and then lead to a lot of positive improvement.

I disagree.

A government has the obligation to give to it citizens that to which they are due. In this case people must be offered the protection of rights, setting up a state that can act as is best for its citizens, securing to each of their due. To secure protection of rights a government holds the obligation to provide health care to citizens, for the following three reasons:

First, Provision of health is a necessary prerequisite to protection of unalienable rights. The primary justification for the existence of the state is to provide for its citizens. A state must protect and provide for the rights of its citizens. There are particular unalienable rights that any state must protect, specifically the rights to life, liberty, and property. While health care may not be one of these unalienable rights, it is required for the protection of those rights. Sharona Hoffman, director of the Law-Medicine Center at Case University, elaborates, "One might ask why moral fairness is a legitimate consideration in the health insurance context". Many scholars answer that question by noting that health care is different from other commodities and services, because one's ability to exercise any life function is often tied to one's health status. Another scholar asserts that reasonably good health is necessary in order to earn a livelihood, to exercise the fundamental rights of liberty and autonomy, and to achieve personal satisfaction, happiness, and fulfilling personal relationships. Therefore, health insurance serves the important social function of providing people with access to health care so that they can have a fair opportunity to enjoy and succeed in life. Without access to health care, citizens have no avenue through which they can exercise their rights. At the point where a government fails to provide to its citizens, it means to protect their rights, it can no longer be considered a government.

Second, Provision of health care is needed to protect autonomy. Health holds a direct correlation to autonomy. This holds true because poor health prevents individuals from engaging themselves in strenuous activities, thus hindering their autonomy. Also, mental health and overall well-being rely on the existence of autonomy. Citizens are able to exercise autonomy when all of their requisite needs have been fulfilled. To determine whether or not requisite needs have been fulfilled we look
to humanist Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The hierarchy of needs is a pyramid composed of various levels, moving from the most basic of needs at the bottom to self-actualization at the very peak of the pyramid. At the lowest level of the pyramid exists physiological needs: the need
to food, water, shelter, etc. This is followed by the need of security, including the need for security of health. Following that comes two more requisite needs, that of a sense of belonging and
of self-esteem. As each successive level of needs is fulfilled the individual progressively gains the ability to actualize their autonomy. Without any access to health care the individual is not afforded autonomy and cannot actualize their desire. As held throughout the affirmative case a government must seek to provide for its citizens. When the government does not provide health care, citizens are not afforded autonomy and at that point, citizens can no longer exercisepositive rights, and the State fails to be.

Third, A just government must consistently take active measures to protect rights. A government cannot act inconsistently in its policies regarding rights; it is unjust for them to take active measures to protect life in one situation while holding a blatant disregard for life in another. Gary E. Jones, Certified Valuation Analyst and founder of ValueNomics explicates, "A policy of health care could be a response to a threat that is chronic in nature. After all, in this century many fewer persons have died in wars than have died from heart disease and cancer". Indeed, while 50,000 Americans were killed in the Vietnam War, heart disease and cancer together account for almost twenty-six times as many deaths. 1,400,000 or 70% of all deaths each year. One of the main functions of anational defense system is to protect against threats of life. "For instance, if just one citizen were threatened by even an insignificant foreign power, he would be afforded protection by the state. The threat need not even be against his life; it could be against his property, a threat of (even temporary) detention, etc." The State must act upon rights violations in a consistent manner in seeking to uphold justice. When a government protects its citizens against militaristic threats to their life, it is inconsistent for the government to not also provide protection in the interest of protecting health. The government, being an entity that has a monopoly on the use of legitimate force, is justified to provide health
care to fulfill its role as the state. "States, of necessity, possess a monopoly on the exercise of coercive force. Being the sole possessors of a right to exercise coercion, governments are obliged to undertake the functions of protection, apprehension, etc., that citizens are prohibited from carrying out on an individual basis. The state has traditionally had a monopoly on the exercise of force because its primary function is to protect citizens. The State does not accidentally possess this monopoly; it has it by design. The fundamental reason for the existence of the state is protection of citizens, and to this end it is given a monopoly on coercive force. But if protection of citizens is the basic function of government and the threat of disease is comparable to that of military aggression, then the role of the State may legitimately be broadened". The obligation of the State then specifically becomes to provide health care, fulfilling its role as the entity with the monopoly on the use of coercive force. If the state does not exercise this force, it is failing to uphold its duty to protect the rights of its citizens and at that point the State is no longer a government.

Therefore to uphold its duties to citizens, a government has the obligation to provide health care to its citizens.

Sorry.. but did you copied this somewhere or something?

I gathered informations and combine them together. (:

i agree that the government has the obligation to provide their citizens' health care services for free/subsidies but the government may not have enough money for the people. An estimated population of Singapore in 2008 is 4,839,400. Do you think the/any government have enough money for subsidies for all?

To solve this, we must stay relevant, we then will take care of ourselves, reducing the amount of people falling sick, hence the subsidies will then be reduced to the minimum. If there's leftover, the government can use the money to use on tourist, education and so forth to improve Singapore. A Win-Win situation

If people have the thinking of getting sick won't cost them anything, they are wrong. This will cause the economy of Singapore to slow down as people are getting sick more often and the government have to use their 'back up' money to solve this problem then the government will then have lesser money to spent on education, economy and so forth.

OT: Lara, you a bit ... :x

So, in the end it is the government's responsibilities! Yes, we must take care of ourselves. But with serious illness for example chronic diseases? Government just leave us alone and do his own thing such as the money use on tourist, education and so forth? Also, it is imposibble for all Singaporean to get sick. It will be distratrous for everybody to get sick in singapore. By the way, the estimation of 4,839,400 citizens also included the government and ministers.

We cannot be too dependent to the government. As a citizen, we should able to understand government's situation and to try to minimize the cost that the government spend on medical care. If we don't, not only the government suffer, we as a citizen suffer too and therefore, it's became our responsibility to take care of ourselves.

OT: if she had re-phase the sentences, she still alright. Or else she has infringe copyright.

Hahaha! I know. But I thought cannot copy?

Us Singaporeans pay personal taxes and GST. We have to pay COE, ERP, season parking, property taxes, road taxes, income taxes, petrol taxes and etcs. The government can subsidise our health and education expenses more from these taxes.

You said, "An estimated population of Singapore in 2008 is 4,839,400. Do you think the/any government have enough money for subsidies for all?"
The answer is yes.

According to the latest annual report by Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore (IRAS), the total tax takings hit $22.9 billion in financial year 2006 and 2007. It was up 15 per cent from the $19.9 billion collected in financial year 2005 and 2006. The total amount of tax collected has grown steadily over the years. It was $16.6 billion in financial year 2002 and 2003, $16.5 billion in financial year 2003 and 2004 and $17.9 billion in financial year 2004 and 2005.

While the tax takings grow each year, the million-dollar club in Singapore grow too. 2121 taxpayers in Singapore earns more than $1 million in Year of Assessment in 2006, this assesses to the income earned in 2005. It was 22 per cent up from 1738 million-dollar earners in 2004. Out of these wealthy people, 31 are non-residents whereas, the rest are Singapore residents. According to tax purposes, those who are physically present in Singapore for at least 183 days in a year are only considered as residents.

The number of taxpayers assessed to the income of in 2006/2007.
$20001 - $50000 : 377336 people.
$50001 - $200000 : 328334 people.
$200001 - $500000 : 36610 people.
$500001 and above : 7870 people.

Since that much tax is collected and it increases every year, why wouldn't the government have enough to subsidise for our health and education expenses?

Us Singaporeans pay personal taxes and GST. We have to pay COE, ERP, season parking, property taxes, road taxes, income taxes, petrol taxes and etcs. The government can subsidise our health and education expenses more from these taxes.

You said, "An estimated population of Singapore in 2008 is 4,839,400. Do you think the/any government have enough money for subsidies for all?"
The answer is yes.

According to the latest annual report by Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore (IRAS), the total tax takings hit $22.9 billion in financial year 2006 and 2007. It was up 15 per cent from the $19.9 billion collected in financial year 2005 and 2006. The total amount of tax collected has grown steadily over the years. It was $16.6 billion in financial year 2002 and 2003, $16.5 billion in financial year 2003 and 2004 and $17.9 billion in financial year 2004 and 2005.

While the tax takings grow each year, the million-dollar club in Singapore grow too. 2121 taxpayers in Singapore earns more than $1 million in Year of Assessment in 2006, this assesses to the income earned in 2005. It was 22 per cent up from 1738 million-dollar earners in 2004. Out of these wealthy people, 31 are non-residents whereas, the rest are Singapore residents. According to tax purposes, those who are physically present in Singapore for at least 183 days in a year are only considered as residents.

The number of taxpayers assessed to the income of in 2006/2007.
$20001 - $50000 : 377336 people.
$50001 - $200000 : 328334 people.
$200001 - $500000 : 36610 people.
$500001 and above : 7870 people.

Since that much tax is collected and it increases every year, why wouldn't the government have enough to subsidise for our health and education expenses?

whatever peiyi is saying is all facts and is proven also. anyway good work in the finding keep it up. WAY A GO PEI YI !! :)

Even there's enough money for subsidies in health care.As a Singaporean, we should understand government's situation and to minimize cost instead of spending them unnecessary. The government will then use the money on somewhere else. one of the example is to use the money to promote tourism for economy purposes.
Even if the money is enough, the government will bank the money for future usage and use it for emergency, one of the example is the economic recession that occur recently.

Look on the other side, if they spend money on us. They cure us, they protect us well. Then we have a better health and we can work. this can help the government. Once they have enough money, they can help on other things in the country. But, with enough money, it doesn't mean that all the money will be for the future usage.

Firstly, i agree that if they did spent money on us for health care, the Singaporeans will then have a better health and can work but we should be conscious about the money spend and try to reduce the money spend on health care by taking care of yourselves, plus if you fall sick less often, you can work even more days than falling sick often and get subsidies from the government unnecessarily.

Secondly, I believed the 'extra' money will be use for future usage. As shown below

Singapore government has introduced S$20.5b resilience package to help country see through economic crisis:

A. 5.1b to help preserve jobs
B. 5.8b for banks
C. 2.6b grants for businesses
D. 2.6b for Singaporeans
E. 4.4b for infrastructure

Last, If we doesn't take care of ourselves, the money use in emergency will be lesser and it will affect Singapore's economy.

i dont think so.
Its good to help the government, do you think people are taking care of their health in the first place? eating food with MSG, takeing soft drinks and eating snacks.

Secondly, the government have BUDGET as i said many times, they will not go above the budget and so it doesnt affect the economic, and by provide cheaper Medical fees, its can help the economic instead of worsing it. i had written it on my other post, please refer.

Firstly, I believed they had no choice because they have no time to cook for themselves and therefore have to eat at outside. For those people who eat outside [example: hawker center], they can ask the hawker to put less oil/less salt/more vegetable. As for those people who still eating food with MSG, taking soft drinks and so forth, they should have a conscious mind that those affect their health. It's not only the government have to spend more money on subsidies, the people who doesn't take care of their health suffered too. Since Singapore is a Develop Country, i believed they have been educated to take less unhealthy food/drinks.

Secondly, what happens if above the budget? Singapore is such a small country and it's very fragile. Therefore, the government will try to save as much money as possible to encounter future disastrous such as economy recession/SARS outbreak that been occurred.

Lastly, yes, providing cheaper medical fee can help the economy, but as a Singaporean, we should understand government's situation and try to reduce the money spent on health care to the minimum by taking care of your health. If you compare a person who constantly taking care of his/her health and working regularly TO a person who constantly sick and get subsidies from the government and working less regularly. The economy will be growing better than the person who get sick more often.

OT: Also i believed that i have written on other post. please refer to them before replying.

The government has the responsibility to take care of us but if we do not take care of ourselves than the government will not care abt taking care of us so in the end it is still the responsibility of the individual

how you know that if we never take care of ourelves,the govt. will not take care of us?

Its funny to ask this question as if we do not take care of ourselves the government will not take note of us so how can they take care of us??

the singapore government system do not work this way, as the government cares about the people as much as other things involved with this country.

the government cares for its people but the people take it for granted and fall sick so its their responsibility in the end

People do not wish that they will fall ill of course. Instead, they wanted a healthy and better lifestyle in Singapore in order to survive. Government cares for the people, but how do you know that people take it for granted?

Since Zhong Peng you said, people do not wish they will fall ill, then they will start to try take care of their health. The government do care for our citizens health and thats why, they want us to be healthy and I agree to an extent that the govenment may help us but its only for those who really need help like the poor and the elderly without any children. I'm sure that the poor and the elderly would not want to fall sick as the feeling is unbearable too. who likes to fall ill?

its true that we dont like to fall sick, but to prevent falling sick doesnt mean that we need to take care of our health as the government can take care of us as good as we do.

by the way the government help everyone plus help more for the ones that need more help.

Although Singapore has a lot of population, there are still foreigners coming into Singapore to find work.
These foreigners can brought in diseases. They can be the threat. We, as citizens here, have paid the government for heir taxes, GST, fines and even more. This money can actually be accumulated into large sums and be used for our own health. Instead, the government use this money to treat(in health services) the foreigners other than us.

I disagree with the statement that we should take care of our health. Although they built polyclinics which are cheaper, make schemes such as medisave, and benefit of being a Singaporean but it is still not fair. They should take care of our health much better and in a good quality than the foreigners.They only brought Singapore into financial crisis.An example is that the worker of one company is sick. They can get more leave and the cost is much cheaper or even free.

In conclusion, we are not the only one that are suppose to take care of ourselves, the government has to help us and take a part of being responsible to take care of our health.

Fuad agree that the government will use the money to trea foreigners but have you ever thought that now its the governments fault that make us get sick as the government is lenient on the illness that the foreigners have and this will in the end spread to us, Singaporeans

Government is not responsible for the illness because these are the illness are spread by the foreigners. For example that, you lend money from a loanshark, then you didnt return the money back. So this is government fault? Did you ever think that government had actually helped us? The imported resources from other countries are the request from government. Of course, without a good government, will we be what we are today? The peace and loving Singapore...

Think this..... we people sometimes hate them. WE fall sick and sometimes government do nothing to help us. What about the needy family and the poor. If Singapore Got MOney to make 2* casino, why they don help the needy to cure for better health. They can just make 1 instead of 2 and the money gain and time spend can be used to improve on Singapore citizen health.

you can't always blame others on what is happening to yourself, it may also be our fault, and also the foreigners had came to Singapore to work so as to helping the development of Singapore. Did you ever thought of that ?

I agree that sometimes we blame other. But the government is spending the money more on the foreigner's need than our needs.

The Government had to and must prepare us from disease because it is their reponsibility to help us maintain a good health. They can do that by helping those who cannot affort the medical fees.The medical facilities is also an important factor which it indirectly help us to take care of our health.Even if we took a good care of ourselves, we will not like 'super person' which will not be sick so therefore we need a medical care from the clinic or the hospitaland that is what we cannot provide for ourselves so only the government could give us these supports.If the government did not done their part,even if we had took care of our health, there is no use to it.Because there are no treatment for our diseases or even flu so therefore government has the reponsibility to take care of our health by giving us indirectly support from the mediacl services that the government could gives us.

Bernard I agree that although people are taking care of their health, we can still fall sick as we are not immortals or invincible but if we take care of our health, we will have a lesser chance of being sick and this will help the government to save money. This amount of money can be used to improve the lives of the poor and if these poor families have a better life, they will also take care of their health.
It is true that bird flu can attack us at anytime but if we take care of our health and the government do their job, they can stop this virus from attacking as the people will have high immunity and the government can stop this virus from foreigners by being strict on the health supervision on foreigners coming to Singapore so its also a government responsibility to take care of us.

It is a government responsibility to take care of our health but in a bigger picture, the government is also individuals and they will take care of their own health by stopping this virus which indirectly protects us. So as a whole, the governments that the opposition party say that protects us is also protecting themselves and this cannot be an applicable reason on why the government should take care of our health.

Nurses and Doctors are hired to protect us and earn their wages to make a living but when only a few people get sick, some nurses and doctors will be retrenched and they might make a career-switch which is able to make a living.

i disagree with the "the government is also individuals" because government are 'somewhat' like a group of many leaders that combine their ideas and plan to improve the life of the people and to build a better nation. "they will take care of their own health by stopping this virus which indirectly protects us" doesnt mean that they have no right to take care of us. and i also disagree the point as by protecting themselve will not really protect us. the government make measures to make the life of us better, but whether or not the government is sick or not, the measure will still continue and it dont do any diferents to us. and you are either not answering the question or i dont really understand wat you are saying.

It is right to say that the government should take care of the citizen health but they should not always relay on the government, it is like spoon feeding them. Instead I think they are responsibility to take care of their health.

In some less developed countries, people do not have basic healthcare facilities, or there are only a few hospitals in the city. So if there are a large number of people falling ill, there are not enough wards to let them stay. How are they going to be cure?
As for the lower income families, they can say that they do not have the money to pay for the medical treatment and so the government must help them. But there is a saving scheme called Medisave. It is an amount of money that can be used to pay hospital balls and certain medical treatment. The Medisave also encourages Singaporeans to be RESPONSIBILE for their own health.

Answering to your question :
How are they going to be cure?

Government will be the ones to help them. Why is there a large number of people falling ill ? Because, it spreads on. Why din't the person who spreads the disease visit the hospitals first? Even though there are a few hospitals only, there should be a place for that 1 person to be cured.

For your last paragraph,
lets think, what if the Medisave is lack of money inside? Does is means that they do not visit th hospital when they are ill ? No! Even if they are lack of money, government will help out no matter what because they do not want the disease to spread on.

This is why it is the individual's responsibility to take care of their health. They should atleast make an effort not to fall sick. Even if a disease may spread unintentionally and cannot be prevented, it still makes a difference when people try their best to protect their own body. There is this thing called satisfaction. An individual will want to be satisfied with his/her actions towards his/her own health. To make everything not so complicated, everyone should just take the responsibility of taking care of their health so that the government will not be troubled and there is lesser job for them. It is not possible for the government to just focus on health issues. So as a nation, we shall take part by keeping ourselves healthy.

But if that person does not have enough money how is the person going to be cured?

So what if the medisave is lack of money? So what if the government can help us? Are they going to pay the whole sum of money for us? NO! They still need to pay some part of money themselves. If the costs is very expensive how are they going to afford it? They can go lend money or whatever but they still are indebt so what the point? It is best that they take good care of themselves to save all this unnecessary trouble.

So what if we take good care of our health? There are cases about healthy people that live a healthy lifestyle also pass away while doing things. So even if we take good care of our life, doesn't mean we will not fall sick. Taking care of our health doesn't really save all the unnecessary trouble. As we can't predict the future that we will not fall sick or a major crisis will not occur.

Come on we citizens pay taxes, GST ... for what. We do this to let the government lead us and our descendants to a better brighter future. But in order for that to happen our health need to be in flawless conditions, and also since the government have the money to build casino ... they should also be able to spent an amount money to take care of our health. Therefore, the government should of course take care of our health. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Paying taxes is different from applying a medical insurance. We pay taxes not because we can use the money anytime when we fall sick. We pay taxes so as to contribute to the country's economy as well. Whereas we can rely on medical insurances when we fall sick as the money is really for health purpose. On the other hand, taxes are not mainly for health issues. Yes, the government's financial support covers health care. But we should also change our mindset that we can always rely on the taxes that we have paid. Somehow, thinking this way is being selfish too.

If u say we pay tax to the government so as to get get repaid by being taken care of but in a bigger picture we pay tax but for other things like food and if we do not fall it easily we also save money for the goverment as they will order lesser medical equipment. This helps the government to save money and helps us to be alert of our surroundings and not fall ill easily

If you say that when we don't fall sick easily, we will help the government save money when they order less medical equipment. However did you consider about the consequences when there are lesser medical equipments, what if a crisis occurred and we don't have enough equipments for the sick? Another point is how would saving money helps us to be alert of our surroundings and not fall ill easily, do you mean by saving money we will take better care of our health? And how can anyone prevent themselves from getting ill? Even if the person is living a healthy lifestyle it doesn't means that they wouldn't fall sick. There is reports regarding normal and healthy people just pass away while either running or while doing they basic routine, so we can't really control such things from happening. So we can't really say taking care of our health is only our responsibility.

If we fall sick less often. The taxes will then contribute lesser in medical care, the 'extra' portion of the money use on somewhere else to make Singapore a better place. Plus, Singapore have a population of 4,839,400[estimated in 2008] do you think the taxes are enough to subsidies all of them?

OT: i believed i said this before.

I admit that the taxes are not enough to subsidies all of them. BUT, minor illness such as flu and fever can be solved by visiting a doctor.It does not require any government's help Anyway, do you think that the whole Singaporean will be sick? If so, Singapore will not be even exist anymore. The government, prime ministers and other ministers such as MOE, MOH and many others will also be sick. Then the other country would be able to attack us without hestitation and eventually take over singapore, isn't it?

Gao Zheng. It is about the responsibility and not about 'how we should help the government save money'. Do you think that helping people to improve their lifestyle is always very costly? The government can also organise events like walkathon or some gathering for the folks to excercise. These are also forms of helping the people reducing chances of obtaining chronic diseases and these are of course much money conserving. Therefore it is still possible for the government to to provide help for people's health. So I do not think that the taxes isn't sufficient to support these activities.

Pang Qi Yuan is saying that citizen shouldnt be too dependent on the government as it will be like spoon feeding.
But what if i tell you all that being dependent is good? Many are too busy at work and cant take good care of their health and start to get depressed and frustrated. but when they rely on the government, they know that they are in good hands and will destress and feel relax.

when the people are happy with this measures ( to take care of their health ), they can focus better as they know that the govenment will be at their back support them if they happen to fall ill. this attitude will improve the economic as people will not slack too much as they want to repay the government for doing such good job. And when medical treatment prices are lower ( not free ) many will be able to afford it and can go back to work faster. you all says that relying on the government will lead to a ( money problem ) but actually when you look into it deeper, you will see that when the people is healthy and happy plus the support of the government, they will work extremely well compared to a workers without. lknow this facts, i can conclude that the economic and the budget of the government do not go down, but in fact it goes up as when they workers work hard, the economic will go well also and then the government will have more money to take care of the people ( including the people that can't work; disabled, elderly and may even to babies ) and can even have enough money to use it on other stuff like; more cleaners to keep the enviroment cleaner so people will not get sick so easily. With money, they can even build a complex that provides free access on using the equipment and that encourage the people to come more often to exercise which will also improve their health.

So lets link back, when we rely on the government, we get a very hard working country plus the workers are all healthy. afterthat we will able to take care of those who need, and can even build complex or something to improve the community.

"In some less developed countries, people do not have basic healthcare facilities, or there are only a few hospitals in the city. So if there are a large number of people falling ill, there are not enough wards to let them stay. How are they going to be cure? " < this is written by Pang Qi Yuan. the government wants to prevent this so they build polyclinic and government hospital so to ensure the people have medical treatment.

And i totally agree that the government is encouraging the people to take some respondsibility but the people are actually waiting for the government to tell them what to do which means that they are relying on the government also.

Bernard boy, you can stop ur debate alr.. give others a chance. you too good..

Bernard boy, you can stop ur debate alr.. give others a chance. you too good..

Aiya.. bernard is also correct.. but he think he's smart.. GO RI LA..
criticise our class for what... WHO TOK ABT UR CLASS... read the past comments.. i have no words to be wasted on you.. reply all you want.. i won't be seeing it

Mr.Bernard, for your information the government can only subsidize a certain percentage of medical fee,even if u go to hospital the bulk sum of money is also paid by the familes,that sum of money may prove to heavy for certain families with low income,so it's always best to start taking care of ur health diet from young what,if this is not the case,why do the government introduces those ask for less oil less salt less sugar in hawker centre schemes.The ideas is all the same,not everyone can dont eat meat,is all about eating in moderation and excercising regulary,the government can only do so little for u by subsidizing the medical fee by abit,it's all about you to take care of it, it's your health your life,if u dont take care dun expect people to take care for you. What they can do also find doctor to cure you,but if you dont take a headstart from young, by the time u have all those problems it wil be too late.I mean its possible to dont eat meat, but for all the people, thats stupid.It';s impossible. There's also vegetarian like what Jia Wei has mentioned ,they also never eat meat,unless the government ban meat lwhich is impossible or if all the animals infected by disease which they then only can eat vegetables.What im implying is that ban meat is impossible !By the way, mr bernard please be more respectful to people.It is insulting to type :" 3E5 pls read this, please use your brain not your head."This is a place where you debate, WHERE YOU SHOOT YOUR FACTS WITH EVIDENCE WHICH IS STARIGHT TO THE POINT BUT NOT DEBATING OTHERS UNRELEVANT STUFF LIKE WHAT U DID WITH AVRIL.

Firstly I didnt say that the government subsidize everything so please read properly, but if i really did, then it shold be typing error or misunderstanding. its true that having individual resondsibility is good but as written in my other posts ( which you should read before making conclusion ) > " taking care of your our body doesnt mean that you will not get illness. As ilness can be spread and some are born with some illness so we should put ourself into their shoes and think for them. No matter how much effort they put in, the illness wont go away and thats why people should be dependent on the government, if everyone rely on government ( not everything, partly ), that way we people can benefit. At another pint of view you will see that it actually benefits even more.

example, when the people are happy with this measures, they can focus better as they know that the govenment will be at their back support them if they happen to fall ill. this attitude will improve the economic as people will not slack too much as they want to repay the government for doing such good job. And when medical treatment prices are lower ( not free ) many will be able to afford it and can go back to work faster. you all says that relying on the government will lead to a ( money problem ) but actually when you look into it deeper, you will see that when the people is healthy and happy plus the support of the government, they will work extremely well compared to a workers without. lknow this facts, i can conclude that the economic and the budget of the government do not go down, but in fact it goes up as when they workers work hard, the economic will go well also and then the government will have more money to take care of the people ( including the people that can't work; disabled, elderly and may even to babies ) and can even have enough money to use it on other stuff like; more cleaners to keep the enviroment cleaner so people will not get sick so easily. With money, they can even build a complex that provides free access on using the equipment and that encourage the people to come more often to exercise which will also improve their health.

So lets link back, when we rely on the government, we get a very hard working country plus the workers are all healthy. afterthat we will able to take care of those who need, and can even build complex or something to improve the community."

so the point here is that taking care of yourself is good but relying on the government may be a lot better.

with this line "unless the government ban meat lwhich is impossible or if all the animals infected by disease which they then only can eat vegetables " taken from you tells you that most of the people still eat meat which is ( so called ) not a very self-resondsible action and therefore is not relavent to support "It is the individual's responsibility to take care of their health".

Firstly "using your brain to think instead of your head" is actually quite true dont you think? you can use the head to think can you? i know a debate is a place to shoot facts with evidence but i am sure that i didnt post unrelevent stuff, and for the ( using your brain to think instead of your head ) its only the title because for your information as you DONT know, the earlier posts are all refering to the ' british ' situation which is not happening now, so thats why i posted it. But if i offend anyone of you, then i am terribly sorry as i have no offence and i really dont mean it.

After reading the notation, I think that everyone has their own part to do their job. For example, artists are to paint their drawing, postman has to deliver letters and of course, doctors have to try their best to cure the patient and maintain their health at a balance state. It is the same, government has to do their own job to provide us for a healthy lifestyle. Maybe we can say that, how do we get talented doctors, abled workers, or even our water that is imported from other country. It is the GOVERNMENT! Without the government, we are unable to have a stabilised Singapore. Of course, we shouldn't said that taking care of our own health is not our responsibility. But, what if the poor families and the bankrupt are ill and are left alone? Government should take care of every citizens in Singapore! Illness is not what we desired for, but with spreaded diseases and natural diseases around, government has to really provide subsidies and money for the people. Hence, i really do think that government really is the main person that we should relied on and he is responsible of taking care of our health.

even though government is responsible for the citizen in singapore but being bankrupt are also your responsibility. so wad if you are bankrupt, you can borrow some money from friends, or family members. you can't keep on blaming the government for your own mistake if everyone says that the government is responsible, there will have riots and people demanding money from the government.so what you are bankrupt, work harder to stand up again, you must correct our own mistake and not doing the mistake again that is how we human live as.

yes its not the government's fault that there are citizens becoming bankrupt and are not able to support their families for in this case, health-wise.

However, Singapore's Standard of Living is rising, and there are bound to be more people having serious cashflow proplems.

As we all know that the Government is trying very hard to reduce the gap between the rich and the poor, the Government would still continue to aid those who need help, in this case, health-wise.

You will never how life goes on, don't you think so? I agree with this statement: "so wad if you are bankrupt, you can borrow some money from friends, or family members. you can't keep on blaming the government for your own mistake if everyone says that the government is responsible, there will have riots and people demanding money from the government." However, you missed out 1 point.The foreigners that came to work and had been abused for example. Government should not be responsible? If the government is not responsible, will there be Singapore today? Will we have any resources that we yearn for from the other country?
"There will have riots and people demanding money from the government.so what you are bankrupt, work harder to stand up again, you must correct our own mistake and not doing the mistake again that is how we human live as." If you are bankrupt, how to work harder? You might not even had the chance to go interview and starve to death eventually without any money. We do must correct our mistake, BUT with relevant job and to repay the person who help him. who? The government!

Wen Jun, as for what you are saying is that people should rely totally on their ownself for everything. However, I do not agree with your statement. People look up to government and expect the government to make changes to their lives. Therefore since there is governance, we should make good use of what the governance actually exist, which is to provide needs to the people of its country itself. If you say that bankruptcy is that easy to reverse its state, you wound not be seeing people going for suicide due to some fortune reverse in their lives. However, suicide has been quite popular around the world and this does not support well with your hypothesis. Anyway, let's get back to the health topic. Since people are having quite a big challenge in their career and finance, proper meals will definitely be deprived of. Therefore, we would still demand help from the government in order for us to even start helping ourselves.

I disagree that we, the citizens, must take care of our own health.We pay taxes, we 'give' money to the government and etcs. So, I think that government have the responsibilities to take care of the citizens health and through the years, funds have been invested in research for better treatments, more effective medicines and training for better-qualified medical staff. Individuals and governments want to have the best possible healthcare they can afford for themselves and their citizens respectively.
This has caused the cost of the healthcare to increase and, if all those poor citizens, like beggars, do not have any money, and they are sick, do we leave them on the streets and see them die? No right?! So, if those poor citizens went to the doctor, and they don't have enough money, they should subsidies the money to the anount they could pay for it.
So, I think that we're not entirely responsible to take care of our health.

I strongly agree Tiffany's opinions. If government does not care about the citizens, who will be willing to follow the government and pay the taxes? Base on the gobal depression, the number of jobless people increase very fast. If government does not want to help them, who else can help?

It is true that individual should take care of their own health. Firstly they should be responsible for their own health,they can't be waiting for other like government to babysit them. If they are thinking this way they are just causing themselves in disadvantages, they would just suffer themselves waiting for the government care instead of taking good care of their health. Even so what if they government does really do that it doesn't mean anything that the service might be good you might be treated with poor medical service and easily falling sick again and then you will repeat the cycle of going back the clinic to seek medical treatment again. In the end they will only feel suffer.

Secondly, why should the government take care your health for you. It is true that government have to think of the welfare of their citizens but if they really have to take care of the health of everyone instead of the individual of taking care of their own, can you imagine that country like China who have 1.31 billion of people, and their government have to take care the whole of health of the 1.31 billion people. Can the government do it in time?Also for example people who is living in a corrupted country, Do you think their people still can rely on their government to take care of their health under condition where their government only think of their benefits.

Thirdly, If the government give free medical service to their citizen, how are they going to maintain their flow of money to manage their country or to save any money for the further use in future. Also citizen may develop the concept of why take care of their health. This is one of the problem that we can refer to from the British Welfare.

Lastly, people think that what if the citizen take care of their health but they still fall sick, might as well they do not take care it better. This is truth everyone might still fall sick even they take care of their own health but lets take Singapore for example when you are sick you do not have to pay high bill for medical fee unless you are either seriously ill or you have to undergo surgery. Even you have to undergo expensive treatment there are are help association you can refer to for help if you are poor citizen who have financial problem.

So I think it is must that we take care of our own health, with all of the reason list above.

“Even so what if they government … … you might be treated with poor medical service and easily falling sick again”. At least they are being treated and they will not pass the illness to other people.

But you are suffering due to the repeating of getting sick, and if the doctor and nurse are too busy and lack of manpowers they might use the wrong medicine or even use needle that is use before on you, and you might get greater illness

I dont think that the government would hire such nurses and doctor. No matter what, Doctors and nurses do their job properly. They will not because their too busy then tried to rush and gave the wrong medicine.

How can you be so should that everyone under a busy condition can still no make mistake, do you know that if they are so many patient coming over and the doctor and nurse do not have time to rest and fatigue can cause them to make mistakes

I bet there should be nurses and doctors working shift. And, i dont think the government will take good care of them by making more working shifts as the government wants those doctors to help out more

That why I say that manpower are not enough therefore causing all this problem, Can you imagine government provide health benefit for citizen and yet spend money to hire more of the manpower? How can the country continue to survive like this?

and thats why it is your own responsiblity not to for sick when u are poor. if you are not sick there be not a need for medical treatments

Wen Jun are you trying to say that poor people don't have the rights to fall sick? I know that we should all take good care of our health but if we really fall sick who can we blame? We CANNOT predict that when we will fall sick. Maybe today you are very hyper and no symptoms of illness. Who can predict that the next day you will not fall sick? So doesn't mean we take good care of our health nothing will happen to us.

'If the government give free medical service to their citizen, how are they going to maintain their flow of money to manage their country or to save any money for the further use in future'

Did they say that they are going to give free medical services? No. We're only trying to say that government has also the responsibility to take care of us. It din't say that they are going to give free medical services.

'they should be responsible for their own health,they can't be waiting for other like government to babysit them.'

Not everyone waits for government to babysit them. Individual's should take care of themselves but government are also needed. This means that, it is not entirely the individual's responsibility to take care of themselves.

But if you do not want to be responsible for your own health trying to keep having the mindset of that government should be responsible in some part of our health, and slowly it will turn into a kind of relying.

Anyway it is not entirely the government responsiblity to take care of us! Government are also human! They also have their own lives to take care of!

Individual's are responsible, but not entirely responsible. Government help is needed. Everyone has a part to play. Without government's help, i think the country would turn chaos!

I did not say that it is entirely the government's responsibility. Of course they have their own lifes. But, as a government, they should help in country. If not, why are they called government?

If everyone think like this and say government would help, then the citizen will start think that government who help every time. To mention don't you think your own life is your own responsible, what if the government is corrupted do you expect any help?

If the government is corrupted, it wont take too long till the whole country would be angry and order for a new government to take control.

But how can you be so sure that the citizen can succeed, even the government is a good one one should be responsible of their health try imagining in past in ancient there is no such welfare system existing. People are responsible of there own health and benefit like rebate aren't there.

In the first place, it is not true the country would not turn chaos with the help of government! One example is the former president Chen shui bian! The former president of the Republic of China (Taiwan) 2000-2008, Chen Shui Pian who was arrested and charged with financial shenanigans in 2008. He had caused corruption as people had to prove that Chen shui bian political favours in exchange for money.
Anyway it required time to order for a new government to take control. Take incumbent President of the Republic of China (ROC), Ma Ying-jeou. It took him at least 10 years to become president.
Are human. what you think of 8 years? Is it long?

You have for FOUR or EIGHT years to elect a NEW president or any NEW governments! This is why many things happen in America! As a human, what do you think will happen to country during these years? Are 4 or 8 years considered short?

Add to my point! Do you really think you that you just change the government so easily??

please get it right that what we are discussing are about responsibility, and not political matters.

Ya I known but can you think that corrupted government like this can even provide the citizen with any of the responsibility of health, it will be more safer and secure when one take care of their own health.

there will always be someone out there who will want to overthrow this corrupted government, and there is also people who will want to change the country, by one means or another. they can also take care of our health.

But how can you be so sure that the government that is changed can still not be corrupted, even so due to the former government the country may not be in good state and they need time to reorganise the country and they might be able to take care of their citizen because they have to deal with the all kinds of problem that the former government had left.

When the case of corruption is very serious, citizens might want to migrate to other country to live there and will go back to their own nation after everything had been stabilized.

The chance of having a corrupted government will be lesser after they had overthrown their ex-government who is corrupted. The reasons are that the population will be more careful when electing their next government, as they doesn't want to go through the same process when the nation is corrupted.

When they need to reorganise the country, the priority will be their people, because without the people being treated(welfare, medical and basic needs), there is no use in reorganising other factors. Except for tourism, where they get their income from.

That the point!! it is true that there will be alway someone to overthrows the corrupted government! However it need time for them to do so! They cannot just overthrow the goverment just like that - no good den changes! you think like that so easy? No.........they have to be elected by its people! election take place every 4 years! Also,They have to prove the government is corrupted. Also, the people who want to change the country will take time to change its country! Also during these years, who will take care of your health? Government........? Yourself........? You may not know or i should say you cannot ensure that government policy and healthcare are alway reasonable right? that why You cant just alway depend on the government! it is the individual's responsibility to take care of their health!

First thing, i would like to comment about ''you think like that so easy?''

I did not mention about anything describing that the changing of government is easy, everyone know that is is hard and troublesome to change a government, and I know it is 4 years or 8 years, so please stop repeating yourself.

Secondly,'Also during these years, who will take care of your health? Government........? Yourself........?''

Yes, i agree that we have to take care of ourselves during that period, but after the government system is stabilized once again, they can take care of us. So during that period which the government is still not stabilized, we can turn to others to help, and like you had said we can go to other countries for treatment(in other post).

how can you be so sure that government system is stablized again?? Also not all the policy and healthcare from the government are alway reasonable! Yeah! we can turn to other country to seek for treatment! it is our choice! but do the people migrate and stay at the country instead?? even if the country had changed its government, do people still trust them?? do the people still go back to the country to stay?

As fellow countrymen, why should you have no faith in what our government is doing? If everyone has the same mindsets, the government would be re-elected for nothing.

Faith are to be earn!

But what you are saying is already like opposing on what the government is doing for us, and for the country. You do not give a chance to let the government show what they are capable of, instead you just comment on them.

Therefore they should earn their trust or even their faith from its people even in the difficult situation like these!you may not know! It is the individual's responsibility to take care of their health! Government are only here to help but not taking responsiblity of your health!

It may be harder to earn their trust or faith during hard times, but they have to earn it by letting people know that they are reliable, by the first thing taking care of their people, and the economy

I agree that it is a individual's responsibility to take care of their health, but the government should also help. Because without the government's help, how are we going to pay for high medical fees for patients who have long term cancer, for operation. And are needed to be constantly paying medical fees for example like dialysis. . People also seek help from the government, or else how do they cope with the fees they are needed to pay?

That the point! Weisiong you finally get my point! like i said, Government are only here to help us but not taking full responsiblity of your health! It is the individual's responsibility to take care of their own health

Yes somehow i do get what you are saying. But can you explain how can we survive without the government's assistance, particularly through this economic downturn?

come on we are talking about the responsibility not about the government assistance although it is somehow link to it but please stay within point. To answer your question we can survive without government assistance by trying to upgrade your skill and find job to support yourself. It is not necessary for you to keep waiting and thinking about the government assistance, if you have time to do that might as well you think of how to survive. Since you own life is your own responsibility not the government one

What Jia Wei is saying is also out of the point, so I was just playing along.

As a result of the recession, many people are already retrenched as companies try to cut cost during this recession. It may be a little bit late if you try to upgrade your skills now, as companies are not hiring and rather save costs than to hire more people.

And without the government providing jobs for us, how can we work?

Since many people are already retrenched as companies try to cut cost during this recession. Then, are government going to be retrench too?? their saleries so high?
even you go out of the point too! Government are just ensuring jobs for us not providing jobs for us!

The main thing that we are going to discuss is about what is going on Singapore , and not China or even British. Yes we can take examples from them, but please dont use them as your reasons to support your stand.

And if u had read the news, China is constantly developing to keep up with the global economy growth as the rest of the world, and maybe until later steps they are able to take care of their population. And to the fact that the whole population shouldn't be sick at the same time, and people can be taken care of a few by a few.

So if a big country like China can do it, why can't us?

I didn't say Singapore can't, I am simply saying that one self should be responsible of their own health and help are given to needy who need help in medical treatment. And Yes I am using the example of other country to give example to show a clearer idea. Also from Jia wei one Benefit are given to citizen in Singapore like in the chinese medical clinic which sometime provide free medical service.

Yes i know what you are explaining. But we should not always rely on free medical services, while the government is try to help us. As those services are free, they must had been sponsored by someone or any organizations, but this time we do not rely on the government, we rely on these people and organizations. At this point, our responsibility in taking care of ourselves falls into other's hands. It is the same as our health being taken care of, but by someone else. This clinics serves those who are poorer or elderly. By visiting the free clinic, we are giving them less chance of getting the sickness cured.

like i said, there is always a second point of view, Sing yi. we need to begin with the end in mind. it is easy for you to say that " we should take care of our own" but not everyone can take care of their body. one example is the busy man that work hard to support the family. this people are worried about what that is happening in the house and they also worried about their health. it is really tough to handle all at one go, thats why they need to rely on the government so that they can focus on their work, and when workers focus and work hard, they start a meritocarcy system, where they get promoted which lead to even better improvement and then will improve the economic as well.

the government are the people, they are just normal people with extrodanary skills of leadership. Without the people there wont be a government in the first place and so they need to take care of us. actually its posible to take can of 1.3 billion of people and theres no way that the whole of china is going to be sick at the same time. in corrupted country, other country will help them by building hospital and many will go to and help out they people there.

We dont not have free medical service so we do not face wat the british have faced.

we do not have to pay high bill because the government is paying partly for us, and if we are accept the government's offer then it means that we are relying on them too. And the poor, they cannot do much without depending on the government.

and to to conclude we can see that relying on the government may seems irrespondsible but in fact, its is benefitual for both party; the government and the people and in additional, it improves the economic.

Ok I see the point you are talking yes indeed in Singapore government are giving benefit like helping out in some of the people in their health bill but it is not certain truth that both party can benefit. Relying government may be a good thing to show your confidence of trusting the country government but you see they point where people rely on it too much and doesn't care about their own health.

Also you are having the mindset that 1.3 billion of people can be sick together in one time in China, but do you know of the widespread disease like sars and bird flu this is the time where the citizen can be sick in one go. Do you still think that the government still have time to care of their people in that time, they can only provide with measure to decrease the number of infected patients.

Even if they rely too much, they know that the government is helping. The government may be helping but, there's a limit. So, they can't rely too much. But, at least the government is helping and it's also their responsibility.

For your 2nd paragraph :
This is why many hospitals needed to be build by the government. So, if it spread widely, many people still have the chances of getting cured.

But the government is helping just to ensure people in their country are happy and it is not really because they are responsible for our health.

Even many hospital are built it doesn't mean that people can be cure, people who rely on government to take care of their health might panic as they don't care and take care of their health and keep thinking that the government responsibility.

Government needs to ensure that everyone is feeling well and they can start work again. With that, government can do other things. Government is somehow responsible as they control the country. If they know that everyone is sick and ignores, what is their job for?

it is not true that government are responsible as they control the country! Their job are here only to help us and it is not their responsible to take care our lives! It is the individual who are responsibility to take care of their health. The government promote healthy lifestyle to its people! without the people to show support or to step their first step, they can just waste their saliva and the country's money to promote healthy lifestyle.

As there are many sectors in the government system, some control the country while some take care of our well being. They do not always waste their money on promoting healthy lifestyle. They indirectly help us through education, such as our PE lessons, they only want to help us by keeping us fit.

But in the end the education of keeping fit is a way of telling that it is one self responsibility of taking care of their own health by keeping it fit. Therefore their main purpose is telling that we are responsible for own health nobody are responsible about it

The PE teachers are hired to tell us what to do during the lessons, and this teachers are paid by the government, so the government is still helping us.

Can we stop this argument for now? Because I know that it is really out of the point.

I did not say they ignore, they help like giving benefit to make the life of the citizen better, but you are maybe thinking that since the government is helping in rebate in our health bill, the government do play a part in our health but in the end this is not true, the government is not responsible about it, it is their job to ensure the citizen are able to live a peace live and able to maintain the country. but not to take responsibility of your health.

I did not say they ignore, they help like giving benefit to make the life of the citizen better, but you are maybe thinking that since the government is helping in rebate in our health bill, the government do play a part in our health but in the end this is not true, the government is not responsible about it, it is their job to ensure the citizen are able to live a peace live and able to maintain the country. but not to take responsibility of your health.

People do not have perfect knowledge about healthcare - they may not know where to get healthcare services, what types of services they should be using...etc AND imperfection in knowledge CAN NEVER BE SOLVED!! Due to administration, land area, imperfection in relating of information and illiteracy, people will NEVER have perfect knowledge of all the benefits of good health that's why the govt should intervene.
Some people may not be able to pay for medical services. Taking the example of Singapore, even though we have the medifund, medisave, medishield
These are CO-pay systems meaning WE STILL HAVE TO PAY!
BUT that may deter some people who REALLY need health care but are unable to pay like people with low income.
Since we are the only resource, and the economy needs its people to drive it (whether to play the part of the consumer or the provider of services/goods).the govt should ensure the welfare of its people which based on the health of its people
"In fact this is not just restricted to the case of Singapore. The very point of having a government IS basically to ensure peace, stability and good welfare of the people of a country."
sorry.. the points are rather messy and the way i phrase is.. hope u all can understand.

We are talking about responsibility here. We are not talking about knowledge. Even if people do not know anything about healthcare, they still can atleast practice such necessary things related to their health. Even the basic ones. Also, we are talking about whether it is the individual's responsibility to take care of their health. Not whether it is the government's responsibility to pay for our financial medical needs.

but the govt. still have responsibilty to take care of us. and if the govt. or doctors when they go visit and not teaching them , how the know to take care of themselves without falling sick?

I agree that it is somehow the government's responsibility too. But it is more of the individual's responsibility.

but the govt. have more responsibilty to take care of us.If the govt. never upgrade for the country don't make necessary changes needed and don't think that it is somehow their responsibility the country will not be what they are today.. example for singapore, if the govt. never make dicisions to upgrade the country right. we would still live in the condition which have no HDB flats and people are living in very bad condition and no matter how they take care of themselves, the still will fall sick very easily so the govt. still MUST take responsiblity to change for the better

But if you take care of your self you won't be sick so easily, people living in bad condition is because that you who is living there did not keep the environment near you clean, you are suppose to be responsible of your health and keep the environment clean which is link to your house. Eg do you think people in past are getting sick so easy, no right that because the welfare in singapore in past are not like now,people can be responsible for their health in past why can't we now be responsible of our health. That because we are thinking what the government that give us now are what they should there is nothing wrong about it.

In my opinion, i think that government have the responsibilty to take care of the citizen's health. If poor families do not have enough money for medical treatment, are we going to let them die?NO! Hence i think that government should help the poorer families by subsidising the medical treatment that they are receiving so that they would be able to treat their illness.Thus i think that it is not entirely our own responsibilty to take care of our ownhealth.

i believe that if the citizens takes care of their health by exercising regularly and eating heathly, people will not fall sick easily. if we the citizen want the government to pay for poor families, the government need to use the money which come from our taxes to pay for our medical bills instead of upgrading the country. importantly, our country is facing econmic crisis and the government need to use the country saving to reduce the inpact that working adult are facing. if the government use the saving to pay for the medical bills i believe that our saving will not last long.therefore if the people takes care of themselves, we can reduce the money used for the medical bills for the poor families and can save more money for further crisis and more important uses.

It’s true that we should take care of our own health by exercising regularly and eating healthily, but the poorer families do not have any choice but to eat cheaper food in order to survive unlike others. If the government do not treat them, they are going to pass the disease to others and there will be even more people getting sick as a result.

It is true that money from the government should be saved for furthur crisis and important stuffs. However, do you think that we should let the poor and sick families to be left alone? Are we going to leave them alone and let them die? Upgrading the country is not as important as the poor families that are left alone. Although you said that people should take care of themselves, what about the diseases that are spread, the diseases that they acquired when they are borned? Are we also to let them die? Of course no. Government should be responsible for every citizens in Singapore.

of course that we are not going to let them die, but poor families can also do their part by keeping themself healthy doesn't mean that poor families can't be healthy.if the poor families can keep themselve healthy their won't be diseases spread or even require any medical treatments

I disagree!

The main thing is, they are poor families. Do they have sufficient money to help themselves? No. This is why government is needed to help !

BUT u already say they are poor. where they get the money to buy themself food that have sufficient nutrients for them to stay healthy.if they don't eat well and they are very easy to get sick and it might need alot of money to cure. the family have no money to pay so the govt. still must TAKE the responsibility right?

than u have work harder for your own survival if you think about it, if people who are poor and ask money from the government why don;t your work harder and have enough money to feed yourself than asking from people? and why people are poor is it because they didn't work hard when you are young, it is also your own mistake for not studying well and now you suffer. even though now you don't have enough education now it isn't too late you still can upgrade yourself and get a better job.

but if the person work from day to night still dont have enough money to take care of themselves?even if they upgrade, they might not even get a job now. singapore is having retrenchment so what if they upgrade they might not even have a job to support themselves.SO the govt. still have to help right?

After reading, The Notion: "It is the individual's responsibility to take care of their health." I totally disagree to it.It should be the government that take care of us as we are paying him money.It doesn't make sense that we pay the government with our parents' hard earn money and they doesn't take care of our health.

For an instance, people who have mental illness. Can the government cure them? Yes, the government can somehow support them financially but nobody can assure that the people will be cured. This shows that we cannot just rely on the government. We should also take part in taking care of our own health.

I think you have the wrong point of view as the government will try their best to help out on everything they can but with so many people under them, they can ensure everyone's safety but they can increase the wellness of everyone's health.
its true that something cannot be done even with the help of the government, but to twice again, can anyone of you do anything about? all we can do is to help them and hope they get will ( thats what the government is doing. )

If the individuals take care of themselves, the government do not need to use so much effort right. So why let them use so much effort when we, ourselves, can help them by taking care of our health.

Even if individuals take care of themselves, they will still fall ill. This is why, government help is needed. Lets say, a disease. It may start from a person who came back from other country, or even from an animal. When they got th disease, it will spread on. Therefore, they have to go to the clinic or hospital to cure it. Which means that, government is also responsible as if government did not build clinic or hospitals, the disease will just pass on with no one to help cure it.

I am just a newcomer but after reading the some pieces of work you all had done, I felt that yes it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves but the goverment too have this reponsibility to take care of our health too. The government can put up measures like reducing the medical cost, giving more medical support like giving an amount of money they had to pay for the fees for those which come from the poorer families.The government also can set-up so reseach central which helps to research dieases that are incurable or which dieases that are quite common and deadly for example cancer.These are also related to taking care of our health.

It still depend on the individual. If we are not disciplined enough to cooperate with whatever the government has planned for us, then it has no point putting up such measures. It is our responsibility to cooperate with the government for a better outcome. Thus, it is the individual's responsibility to take care of their health. Whether the government is there to help or not, if the individual is not willing to cooperate then the government's effort will be a waste.

Then what happens to those who want to cooperate and what happen to us when the government don't want to cooperate?

That's why we must be prepared at all times. To achieve this, take care of yourself and do not fall sick often.

Actually i disagree with you all, taking care of your our body doesnt mean that you will not get illness. As ilness can be spread and some are born with some illness so we should put ourself into their shoes and think for them. No matter how much effort they put in, the illness wont go away and thats why people should be dependent on the government, if everyone rely on government ( not everything, partly ), that way we people can benefit. At another pint of view you will see that it actually benefits even more.

example, when the people are happy with this measures, they can focus better as they know that the govenment will be at their back support them if they happen to fall ill. this attitude will improve the economic as people will not slack too much as they want to repay the government for doing such good job. And when medical treatment prices are lower ( not free ) many will be able to afford it and can go back to work faster. you all says that relying on the government will lead to a ( money problem ) but actually when you look into it deeper, you will see that when the people is healthy and happy plus the support of the government, they will work extremely well compared to a workers without. lknow this facts, i can conclude that the economic and the budget of the government do not go down, but in fact it goes up as when they workers work hard, the economic will go well also and then the government will have more money to take care of the people ( including the people that can't work; disabled, elderly and may even to babies ) and can even have enough money to use it on other stuff like; more cleaners to keep the enviroment cleaner so people will not get sick so easily. With money, they can even build a complex that provides free access on using the equipment and that encourage the people to come more often to exercise which will also improve their health.

So lets link back, when we rely on the government, we get a very hard working country plus the workers are all healthy. afterthat we will able to take care of those who need, and can even build complex or something to improve the community.

taking care of yourself ward off sickness as it builds up immunity

The fact is that no matter how strong you are u will and you will surely fall sick one

But atleast it's not your fault that you fall sick. You will not have to blame yourself for falling sick. So it's still better to take care of your health right.

what he means was that why you act on your own, you can fall ill less but when you rely on the government, what you gain will me written above " the people are happy with this measures, they can focus better as they know that the govenment will be at their back support them if they happen to fall ill. this attitude will improve the economic as people will not slack too much as they want to repay the government for doing such good job. And when medical treatment prices are lower ( not free ) many will be able to afford it and can go back to work faster. you all says that relying on the government will lead to a ( money problem ) but actually when you look into it deeper, you will see that when the people is healthy and happy plus the support of the government, they will work extremely well compared to a workers without. lknow this facts, i can conclude that the economic and the budget of the government do not go down, but in fact it goes up as when they workers work hard, the economic will go well also and then the government will have more money to take care of the people ( including the people that can't work; disabled, elderly and may even to babies ) and can even have enough money to use it on other stuff like; more cleaners to keep the enviroment cleaner so people will not get sick so easily. With money, they can even build a complex that provides free access on using the equipment and that encourage the people to come more often to exercise which will also improve their health."

Individuals are those who can support themselves

i got to tell you this, this is a debate. you cant debate then dont comment. if you have what it takes then you talk.

nope.. you are getting it wrong... everything about babies... you think babies cannot grow? one day they mature, they'll have to take care of themselves

before the babies are matured, they still need to be taken care of. and do you know how many years it take?

they grow up, they take care of themselves.. as in health

even if they are physically matured, they still do not have what it takes to take care of themselves. what they need is to be mentally matured

repeating again, the individual in this qns refer to working people..i do not understand why ur friend, bernard is trying to do.